I am not disagreeing, rather… what is the traumatic event people are holding on to? The end of the article is well said and could be shortened even more - if all you do is consume, life sucks. I do not know a single active person who wants to bet against the future.
I think R. Buckminster Fuller had it wrong when he wrote his book "Utopia or Oblivion." Both are two binary extremes, and I think both are wrong. We are no more all going to be elevated to some pure utopian situation anymore than we are all going to die and become zombies in some nuclear apocalypse. Both are fantasies. Yet, I still believe we've already hit peak oil...
That's why we had to move to things like fracking, because all (or a lot) of the other oil that was easier to get had already been gotten. Otherwise, why put more resources, into extracting less resources? That's where we've gotten in our extraction of something with just a finite supply that our societies energy system is based on...
Limits are something that give beauty and shape to things, and there are real Limits to Growth. That book got it right, in my opinion. But it is true, that just because civilizations and nations rises and fall, and have their own life span in the same way that a person grows, matures, and then dies, doesn't mean you have to give in to utter doom. If your own mortality doesn't cause you to always be in a state of despair (it might for the transhumanist, Ray Kurzweil crowd), and if you can still be optimistic knowing there will eventually be a shuffling off of this mortal coil, then I think the same is true about the things doomers are worried about. Many of which they have at least some reason to be worried about. You can accept the reality of the problems and issues in our civilization though, and still cultivate humor and optimism. Even if you think, as I do, that industrial civilization and the cult of infinite progress itself has a limited life span.
Yet the server farms that the digital economy is based on consume a ton of energy and are only possible by using resources from the planet. I tend to think the internet has a limited lifespan.
solar and nuclear are great sources of green energy -we also have plenty of oil -there's no worries on this stuff for a very long time and in the future we'll have novel energy production that's even more efficiently produced
I think solar energy is great, but you need oil to make the solar panels themselves. As far as nuclear energy, having read books like "One hundred miles from home :nuclear contamination in the communities of the Ohio River Valley : Mound, Paducah, Piketon, Fernald, Maxey Flats, and Jefferson Proving Ground" I am not a big fan, considering all the harm it has caused. Nuclear power is also hand in hand, or should I say, arms-in-arm, with the nuclear weapons industry.
I do appreciate you wanting to promote some optimism, but I guess my doomer strains are really showing.
I think you should re-read his article;) I do agree with you about the silliness of going to one extreme or another though. We should be optimistic about the future but also aware of risks to that future that we can do something about. The attitude of gratitude is something that is missing in the doomer crowd that makes them so damn miserable to themselves and to those around them. I’d much prefer to hang out with Julian Simon than Paul Erlich.
Hi Unstick. I don't know either of the people you mention, so I'm not sure who I'd like to hang out with... I do agree, that we can all be a bit more optimistic no matter what the future holds. Taking action now really is the key no matter what direction you think we are going collectively. Things can be done now that can improve the future, and that's why I think, even though I also think our resources are more limited than our host does (and I do love many of your posts since I've been reading, Adam) that we can effect more positive change now if we don't give in to either total apocalypticism, but neither going over to fully automated luxury capitalism-communism.
I was unhappy with my own life, angry at myself and my own failure to achieve my ambitions. It was easier to believe there was something wrong with the world than to reckon with what was wrong with me.
Look at the upside: what great buying opportunities in the market!
Also, you’ve articulated in a different way the concept of Harry Cohen’s Be the Sun, Not the Salt: dump the negativity and negative people and embrace a more positive, helpful spirit.
My hypothesis is that many doomers have unaddressed trauma. "Catastrophic thinking" is actually a symptom of PTSD.
100%, there is real projection here
I am not disagreeing, rather… what is the traumatic event people are holding on to? The end of the article is well said and could be shortened even more - if all you do is consume, life sucks. I do not know a single active person who wants to bet against the future.
I think R. Buckminster Fuller had it wrong when he wrote his book "Utopia or Oblivion." Both are two binary extremes, and I think both are wrong. We are no more all going to be elevated to some pure utopian situation anymore than we are all going to die and become zombies in some nuclear apocalypse. Both are fantasies. Yet, I still believe we've already hit peak oil...
That's why we had to move to things like fracking, because all (or a lot) of the other oil that was easier to get had already been gotten. Otherwise, why put more resources, into extracting less resources? That's where we've gotten in our extraction of something with just a finite supply that our societies energy system is based on...
Limits are something that give beauty and shape to things, and there are real Limits to Growth. That book got it right, in my opinion. But it is true, that just because civilizations and nations rises and fall, and have their own life span in the same way that a person grows, matures, and then dies, doesn't mean you have to give in to utter doom. If your own mortality doesn't cause you to always be in a state of despair (it might for the transhumanist, Ray Kurzweil crowd), and if you can still be optimistic knowing there will eventually be a shuffling off of this mortal coil, then I think the same is true about the things doomers are worried about. Many of which they have at least some reason to be worried about. You can accept the reality of the problems and issues in our civilization though, and still cultivate humor and optimism. Even if you think, as I do, that industrial civilization and the cult of infinite progress itself has a limited life span.
The digital economy is in theory infinite. We already have the future right here if we want it!
Yet the server farms that the digital economy is based on consume a ton of energy and are only possible by using resources from the planet. I tend to think the internet has a limited lifespan.
solar and nuclear are great sources of green energy -we also have plenty of oil -there's no worries on this stuff for a very long time and in the future we'll have novel energy production that's even more efficiently produced
I think solar energy is great, but you need oil to make the solar panels themselves. As far as nuclear energy, having read books like "One hundred miles from home :nuclear contamination in the communities of the Ohio River Valley : Mound, Paducah, Piketon, Fernald, Maxey Flats, and Jefferson Proving Ground" I am not a big fan, considering all the harm it has caused. Nuclear power is also hand in hand, or should I say, arms-in-arm, with the nuclear weapons industry.
I do appreciate you wanting to promote some optimism, but I guess my doomer strains are really showing.
Modern nuclear is much safer the latest generation of production and storage are much better
Time will tell.
Thanks for the topic and the conversation.
I think you should re-read his article;) I do agree with you about the silliness of going to one extreme or another though. We should be optimistic about the future but also aware of risks to that future that we can do something about. The attitude of gratitude is something that is missing in the doomer crowd that makes them so damn miserable to themselves and to those around them. I’d much prefer to hang out with Julian Simon than Paul Erlich.
Hi Unstick. I don't know either of the people you mention, so I'm not sure who I'd like to hang out with... I do agree, that we can all be a bit more optimistic no matter what the future holds. Taking action now really is the key no matter what direction you think we are going collectively. Things can be done now that can improve the future, and that's why I think, even though I also think our resources are more limited than our host does (and I do love many of your posts since I've been reading, Adam) that we can effect more positive change now if we don't give in to either total apocalypticism, but neither going over to fully automated luxury capitalism-communism.
Reformed doomer, can confirm.
I was unhappy with my own life, angry at myself and my own failure to achieve my ambitions. It was easier to believe there was something wrong with the world than to reckon with what was wrong with me.
Glad you made it through the doomer ringer, freedom
I think my flavour is doomerism with a hint of optimism for the future if we'd just do things better. But how long can one hold on to that hope?
We do things better all the time, and some things worse before we do them better. Trust the process
Don’t know where you are at with Americans, but it keeps getting better and better.
Just started season 2
I’d love to read your review once you get through it. One of the few shows— along with severance — that my wife and I both loved equally.
This has some of the best paragraphs I've read from you. Love it.
Love this. Been feeling a bit more anxious recently but its good to see some positive stats
Look at the upside: what great buying opportunities in the market!
Also, you’ve articulated in a different way the concept of Harry Cohen’s Be the Sun, Not the Salt: dump the negativity and negative people and embrace a more positive, helpful spirit.
I’m tending to think doomers are avoiding their immediate duties as a member of society. Maybe just fuckin’ lazy.
I think they have their sense of duty screwed up…
I had doomerism pegged as a cope, but you make a convincing argument. https://open.substack.com/pub/joedonatelli/p/why-everything-is-horrible-now?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web