Having obtained a couple of professional designations myself, the lack of a required work experience component to obtain a MBA does seem like a weakness. I have a PMP (Project Management Professional) designation and at a minimum you need several thousand hours of documented work experience to be able to register for the exam. There are other levels of designation you can get in the interim while you build up your required hours. To me that seems reasonable.
But 10 years of the VC-backed ecosystem diminishing the basics of accounting and finance resulted in a lack of fluency in how interest rate is a variable in the discount cashflow model.
The fundamentals of business don’t require an MBA, but also pretending the fundamentals of business weren’t important has affected why we can’t have nice things now.
Well said ..although the points you make apply to most education, not just MBA programs. With increased adoption of AI, hopefully higher ed gets reimagined.
I agree with the secular trend but also HBS and Stanford Students are rich and have options. I think at the margin you’re seeing people wait out the market longer for ideal opportunities. Duke students have less options than HBS students and therefore probably not waiting out lesser offers. There may be some marginal mismatch for the marginal student thinking their market value is higher and that drives a big swing.
Also these 2021-22 rates are lower than normal because of how hot things are.
I’d say generally there’s still a pretty robust talent market for the top firms. It’s just a very specific kind of opportunity and people may be waiting for the 22 reality to come back which may not exist.
Interesting views here, my perspective has always been that education is not enough. And that practice isn't enough. Being good is doing both, but I absolutely agree with the destruction of the 'prestige' of the school badges of honour...
As an MBA holder from I guess what you could call a second tier UK university, this piece really resonated with me. There are some cases where an MBA still make sense but it’s going to be for a small minority - perhaps 15 years ago it was different, and there was a bigger general impact from having an MBA.
An MBA with an internship would be a good change. The only benefit of some MBA degrees is if one is employed in an agency highly structured around degrees. Academic degrees are becoming less important, while actual achievement is becoming more important. Take courses as needed in your profession, instead of striving toward one academic degree.
I hold an MBA from a state university in the Midwest and it provided minimal value (but thankfully at a much lower cost than Ivy League or similar full-time programs) compared to my undergraduate education. Nothing beats hands-on experience and intuition. Managing a business on spreadsheets or PowerPoint decks does not work. It can be so easy to default to this thinking and make budgetary tweaks or cuts every year to appease your shareholders. That is, until your business loses its moat and can no longer sustain any momentum.
Agree with the premise of this “hot take” as someone who came in very low on formal professional experience when starting her MBA--but also wondering about the chart at the top: are more of these MBAs are graduating “unemployed” due to appeal initiating their own start-ups post-graduation, and that’s picking up momentum again Post-2020?
I’ll disclaim that I’m a Sloan alumna and worked at HBS back when the iLab was in its infancy but gaining traction. The entrepreneurship push was pretty strong on both sides of the Charles River and especially among members of my graduating class at MIT under a decade ago. Based on conversations with prospective Sloan students and on the school’s marketing, my sense is that the post-grad startup pathway is still well-promoted, alive, and well.
Very interesting article, Adam. On the supply side, the good news is that b-schools know how to run their business of degree selling; we should know how to do that. The bad news, as you point out, is on the demand side. Average students buy into a degree because they can pay the bill, the degree lacks rigor, credential value is diluted, and employers have other avenues to assess talent. I remain hopeful an undergraduate and graduate degree will return to merit and rigor, however. I have written about credentials in the financial planning world niche and removed the paywall for interested readers. https://robertpuelz.substack.com/p/credential-hysteria
25 reader comments point to the relevance of this article. I agree with the main points and sentiment. As a financial advisor, I've been tempted to pursue and MBA; however, articles like these show me there are better paths out there.
Substack appears to be generating more thoughtful discussion than other social websites. I appreciate how people respect the perspectives and views of others, even if they may not align with those views.
Continue to share great ideas and interact with one another. You don't need an MBA to do that! ;)
At this point those program's value is access to the exclusive network and networking. The internet is an awesome place that has leveled playing fields and drives/values results based experiences instead of classroom time. MORE!
Enjoyed reading, thank you for the fantastic articulation! I subscribe wholly to the idea our entire schooling system needs a rethink. What worked in a pre-internet era of information scarcity is not what we need today. As you mentioned most of the things we learn in today's school curriculum can be self-taught using free resources online. All we need is a social envoirment to enable how to connect with real human beings and how to shape frameworks to solve real world problems.
Thought provoking article Adam! Now I wonder what should I do with my unused GI Bill? I have a blank check full ride to any grad school program I want to pursue, and an MBA always seemed like a decent resume future proofing line of effort to add onto a STEM undergrad.
McKinsey is the worlds most expensive ChatGPT wrapper
Having obtained a couple of professional designations myself, the lack of a required work experience component to obtain a MBA does seem like a weakness. I have a PMP (Project Management Professional) designation and at a minimum you need several thousand hours of documented work experience to be able to register for the exam. There are other levels of designation you can get in the interim while you build up your required hours. To me that seems reasonable.
The debt might not be necessary.
But 10 years of the VC-backed ecosystem diminishing the basics of accounting and finance resulted in a lack of fluency in how interest rate is a variable in the discount cashflow model.
The fundamentals of business don’t require an MBA, but also pretending the fundamentals of business weren’t important has affected why we can’t have nice things now.
Well said ..although the points you make apply to most education, not just MBA programs. With increased adoption of AI, hopefully higher ed gets reimagined.
I agree with the secular trend but also HBS and Stanford Students are rich and have options. I think at the margin you’re seeing people wait out the market longer for ideal opportunities. Duke students have less options than HBS students and therefore probably not waiting out lesser offers. There may be some marginal mismatch for the marginal student thinking their market value is higher and that drives a big swing.
Also these 2021-22 rates are lower than normal because of how hot things are.
I’d say generally there’s still a pretty robust talent market for the top firms. It’s just a very specific kind of opportunity and people may be waiting for the 22 reality to come back which may not exist.
Still agree with the long term trend tho
"...but you can’t fake 500 blog posts." Curious how this will play out with the new batch of AI-powered writers and "thinkers".
I shared a similar phenomenon previously https://www.pathnine.co/p/the-hypocrisy-of-career-hipsters
Interesting views here, my perspective has always been that education is not enough. And that practice isn't enough. Being good is doing both, but I absolutely agree with the destruction of the 'prestige' of the school badges of honour...
As an MBA holder from I guess what you could call a second tier UK university, this piece really resonated with me. There are some cases where an MBA still make sense but it’s going to be for a small minority - perhaps 15 years ago it was different, and there was a bigger general impact from having an MBA.
An MBA with an internship would be a good change. The only benefit of some MBA degrees is if one is employed in an agency highly structured around degrees. Academic degrees are becoming less important, while actual achievement is becoming more important. Take courses as needed in your profession, instead of striving toward one academic degree.
Well said Adam.
I hold an MBA from a state university in the Midwest and it provided minimal value (but thankfully at a much lower cost than Ivy League or similar full-time programs) compared to my undergraduate education. Nothing beats hands-on experience and intuition. Managing a business on spreadsheets or PowerPoint decks does not work. It can be so easy to default to this thinking and make budgetary tweaks or cuts every year to appease your shareholders. That is, until your business loses its moat and can no longer sustain any momentum.
Agree with the premise of this “hot take” as someone who came in very low on formal professional experience when starting her MBA--but also wondering about the chart at the top: are more of these MBAs are graduating “unemployed” due to appeal initiating their own start-ups post-graduation, and that’s picking up momentum again Post-2020?
I’ll disclaim that I’m a Sloan alumna and worked at HBS back when the iLab was in its infancy but gaining traction. The entrepreneurship push was pretty strong on both sides of the Charles River and especially among members of my graduating class at MIT under a decade ago. Based on conversations with prospective Sloan students and on the school’s marketing, my sense is that the post-grad startup pathway is still well-promoted, alive, and well.
Very interesting article, Adam. On the supply side, the good news is that b-schools know how to run their business of degree selling; we should know how to do that. The bad news, as you point out, is on the demand side. Average students buy into a degree because they can pay the bill, the degree lacks rigor, credential value is diluted, and employers have other avenues to assess talent. I remain hopeful an undergraduate and graduate degree will return to merit and rigor, however. I have written about credentials in the financial planning world niche and removed the paywall for interested readers. https://robertpuelz.substack.com/p/credential-hysteria
25 reader comments point to the relevance of this article. I agree with the main points and sentiment. As a financial advisor, I've been tempted to pursue and MBA; however, articles like these show me there are better paths out there.
Substack appears to be generating more thoughtful discussion than other social websites. I appreciate how people respect the perspectives and views of others, even if they may not align with those views.
Continue to share great ideas and interact with one another. You don't need an MBA to do that! ;)
At this point those program's value is access to the exclusive network and networking. The internet is an awesome place that has leveled playing fields and drives/values results based experiences instead of classroom time. MORE!
Enjoyed reading, thank you for the fantastic articulation! I subscribe wholly to the idea our entire schooling system needs a rethink. What worked in a pre-internet era of information scarcity is not what we need today. As you mentioned most of the things we learn in today's school curriculum can be self-taught using free resources online. All we need is a social envoirment to enable how to connect with real human beings and how to shape frameworks to solve real world problems.
Thought provoking article Adam! Now I wonder what should I do with my unused GI Bill? I have a blank check full ride to any grad school program I want to pursue, and an MBA always seemed like a decent resume future proofing line of effort to add onto a STEM undergrad.