I feel like another part of the panic though, is people's fears about A.I. It has been stealing jobs and causing problems for artists. Maybe not on the scale that most people think, but it is happening. And its also causing problems with learning in schools (I am married to a teacher and good friends with another so I see this through their struggles with it). So part of the equation here is that real people ARE being affected in a negative way, and lots of people see data centers as expanding a thing that has taken something meaningful away from them or a loved one.
I think that your other points on the matter are most likely true (I intend to research this myself after commenting because I want to see for myself). But I do think you need to add the above to the mix. In all of this, emotions play a strong part, but not all of them are invalid.
Yes this fear makes sense, and the comment is valid - but protestors aren't really talking about this they are just repeating bad stats (watch some of the community forums or see what's being shared online). Your broader point on fear of automation is real, we should cover that in a future post because it's a great topic. Note AI fears are way down the list when you look at things most Americans worry about - although expressed higher in certain circles for sure
You are correct that protesters tend to be screaming about the environment more than anything else. I just wanted to add a bit of nuance to the conversation, I suppose. I am definitely in the circle of people more concerned about automation, as you put it. And I feel more people should be aware of the consequences of it. But you do make a good point that I am probably in the minority in my concerns since that's not the popular thing to be outraged about right now. I see it more because of my personal connections to it. I look forward to a future post discussing these things. Thanks for the response!
Wracking my brain trying to imagine where one would go near most neighborhoods, it just isn't zoned for commercial real estate in most places. America is huge there's plenty of space. The Utah project won't bother anyone it's in the middle of the desert!
But in this analogy, who's actually building the guillotines? The people blocking power infrastructure in their counties while the rest of the country needs electricity, or the people trying to build it? NIOBY or NIMBY, the outcome is the same: nothing gets built.
The first time around it was a guy named Antoine Louis, and then a surgeon named Joseph Ignace Guillotin advocated for a more humane means of public execution.
This time around, it’s probably three parties all operating independently:
1) the 2026 San Francisco equivalent of the type of clique of highly successful and highly discreet professionals and investors you’d see either late at the Docks in NY (in the 1970s) or in certain liquor licensed establishments between the hours of 10pm and 4am in London (in the 1990s), or the friends of the men who tried to kidnap Tanya at the end of Season two of white lotus funding these things through backroom deals;
2) desperate debtors, with an inflated sense of their education and cultural ideals, mindlessly taking paychecks to tweak the design (and who are quitting droves by the way), ((^[]the new thing is they’re getting surveyed by their bosses and having their own cognition’s harvested to fuel the AI algorithms, so that one’s great and interesting.))
3) and then normal people struggling to get by often by taking construction work who are actually building it.
–––
The NIOBY, for all its faults, is an attempt to stymie the effects of the social cannibalism, through an aporetic stance on visible issues which affect them.
Adam MacKay made this point in the opening and closing of Vice.
Adam Curtis gestured at this point implicitly by identifying the failures the Occupy movement.
I love logical fallacies, so…
Your name is Adam why don’t you get it too?
Kidding.
I think your argument might be valid on a higher level of thinking.
But as the subject matter of sociocultural pamphleteering it falls a little flat because the broader degree of trust in government, media, medicine, you name it is like totally debased.
The haves in this society are still living on the Ketamine trip of 2000s era Hockey Stick growth promises, and committing grift, fraud, and theft to avoid confronting the reality that it’s not sustainable.
All the while another form of environmental concern loom large in the background: overpopulation and the ecological reality of not having enough perks for being alive. Especially for the sober minded, undistracted defenders of capital who enjoy the ability to delegate and relax.
And don’t get me wrong. AI is wonderful. I just don’t think that AI should be hooked up to data centers. Both in principle, and because there are too many pre-existing clauses in the social contract at this point.
When a society cannot express its needs to itself through honest dialogue and conflict mediation, solutions feel attainable only at the level of chess-playing over vast time horizons.
The requisite insanity for which requires either a machiavellianism to win in advance or a radicalism to reject the former through desperate acts in accordance with the Sun Tzu’s dictum about what to do on desperate ground. My better angels argue the rejection of both.
But the delusional prophet in me agrees with Sean Penn’s rendition of Harvey Milk, “You fight the hell back.”
We can always talk. But, in the interest of realness,
- go make tirzepatide cost $10 so I can give you my full and undivided attention,
- go create 10 million jobs with like 40 years of job stability, so 10 million other people can give you theirs,
- go solve the problems which actually underlie the political animus of the people shouting NIOBY,
- at a minimum assent to the distinction,
And then, maybe at that point the conversation can be had in good faith.
For the moment all I can tell you is you really look like you’re just arguing in favor of data centers for one reason or another. And in the current climate given the actual existence of tangible frustration about the sense of powerlessness to stop the construction of these things, that might be a damning position to take as far as 999,000 out of 1 million people you’d meet on the street would be concerned.
I feel like another part of the panic though, is people's fears about A.I. It has been stealing jobs and causing problems for artists. Maybe not on the scale that most people think, but it is happening. And its also causing problems with learning in schools (I am married to a teacher and good friends with another so I see this through their struggles with it). So part of the equation here is that real people ARE being affected in a negative way, and lots of people see data centers as expanding a thing that has taken something meaningful away from them or a loved one.
I think that your other points on the matter are most likely true (I intend to research this myself after commenting because I want to see for myself). But I do think you need to add the above to the mix. In all of this, emotions play a strong part, but not all of them are invalid.
Yes this fear makes sense, and the comment is valid - but protestors aren't really talking about this they are just repeating bad stats (watch some of the community forums or see what's being shared online). Your broader point on fear of automation is real, we should cover that in a future post because it's a great topic. Note AI fears are way down the list when you look at things most Americans worry about - although expressed higher in certain circles for sure
You are correct that protesters tend to be screaming about the environment more than anything else. I just wanted to add a bit of nuance to the conversation, I suppose. I am definitely in the circle of people more concerned about automation, as you put it. And I feel more people should be aware of the consequences of it. But you do make a good point that I am probably in the minority in my concerns since that's not the popular thing to be outraged about right now. I see it more because of my personal connections to it. I look forward to a future post discussing these things. Thanks for the response!
I still wouldn’t want to live near one
Wracking my brain trying to imagine where one would go near most neighborhoods, it just isn't zoned for commercial real estate in most places. America is huge there's plenty of space. The Utah project won't bother anyone it's in the middle of the desert!
Really good quick bait, didn’t read no it’s not
Thank you for the comment this perfectly exemplifies the problem!
It’s not NIMBY it’s NIOBY.
There’s a huge difference
I fucking hate this UI. Haha
In 1789 M got their head chopped off.
O on the other hand did the chopping.
But in this analogy, who's actually building the guillotines? The people blocking power infrastructure in their counties while the rest of the country needs electricity, or the people trying to build it? NIOBY or NIMBY, the outcome is the same: nothing gets built.
The first time around it was a guy named Antoine Louis, and then a surgeon named Joseph Ignace Guillotin advocated for a more humane means of public execution.
This time around, it’s probably three parties all operating independently:
1) the 2026 San Francisco equivalent of the type of clique of highly successful and highly discreet professionals and investors you’d see either late at the Docks in NY (in the 1970s) or in certain liquor licensed establishments between the hours of 10pm and 4am in London (in the 1990s), or the friends of the men who tried to kidnap Tanya at the end of Season two of white lotus funding these things through backroom deals;
2) desperate debtors, with an inflated sense of their education and cultural ideals, mindlessly taking paychecks to tweak the design (and who are quitting droves by the way), ((^[]the new thing is they’re getting surveyed by their bosses and having their own cognition’s harvested to fuel the AI algorithms, so that one’s great and interesting.))
3) and then normal people struggling to get by often by taking construction work who are actually building it.
–––
The NIOBY, for all its faults, is an attempt to stymie the effects of the social cannibalism, through an aporetic stance on visible issues which affect them.
Adam MacKay made this point in the opening and closing of Vice.
Adam Curtis gestured at this point implicitly by identifying the failures the Occupy movement.
I love logical fallacies, so…
Your name is Adam why don’t you get it too?
Kidding.
I think your argument might be valid on a higher level of thinking.
But as the subject matter of sociocultural pamphleteering it falls a little flat because the broader degree of trust in government, media, medicine, you name it is like totally debased.
The haves in this society are still living on the Ketamine trip of 2000s era Hockey Stick growth promises, and committing grift, fraud, and theft to avoid confronting the reality that it’s not sustainable.
All the while another form of environmental concern loom large in the background: overpopulation and the ecological reality of not having enough perks for being alive. Especially for the sober minded, undistracted defenders of capital who enjoy the ability to delegate and relax.
And don’t get me wrong. AI is wonderful. I just don’t think that AI should be hooked up to data centers. Both in principle, and because there are too many pre-existing clauses in the social contract at this point.
When a society cannot express its needs to itself through honest dialogue and conflict mediation, solutions feel attainable only at the level of chess-playing over vast time horizons.
The requisite insanity for which requires either a machiavellianism to win in advance or a radicalism to reject the former through desperate acts in accordance with the Sun Tzu’s dictum about what to do on desperate ground. My better angels argue the rejection of both.
But the delusional prophet in me agrees with Sean Penn’s rendition of Harvey Milk, “You fight the hell back.”
We can always talk. But, in the interest of realness,
- go make tirzepatide cost $10 so I can give you my full and undivided attention,
- go create 10 million jobs with like 40 years of job stability, so 10 million other people can give you theirs,
- go solve the problems which actually underlie the political animus of the people shouting NIOBY,
- at a minimum assent to the distinction,
And then, maybe at that point the conversation can be had in good faith.
For the moment all I can tell you is you really look like you’re just arguing in favor of data centers for one reason or another. And in the current climate given the actual existence of tangible frustration about the sense of powerlessness to stop the construction of these things, that might be a damning position to take as far as 999,000 out of 1 million people you’d meet on the street would be concerned.
But I could be wrong 😊