When I was a child, I visited a commune in Marin County where my father was living. The few children were left unsupervised, unfed, ignored by adults busy getting high. Two children drowned in a fetid swimming pool while the adults slept off their partying. The hippies complained when the health department came and fenced in the unmaintained pool.
Of course there are people trying to glorify the disaster by making a documentary about the wonderful commune. It’s amazing how people refuse to see what is in front of them.
That's right. When the Berlin Wall fell, people didn’t run toward communism, they ran away from it. Millions wanted the freedoms and opportunities of the West. Yet too often, people focus on the theory of systems where everything sounds perfect on paper, rather than the real historical outcomes when those ideas were actually put into practice
Using a 200 year old utopian failure to discredit the idea of paying for health and education in a wealthy society is, to my mind, the very definition of evil intent.
I would suggest actually listening to some of the DSA members, in their own words. Also read the literature on their websites. It is far more radical than this: they want to de-fund police and abolish boarders, full state control over major corporations, replace the president & supreme court, abolish the senate, etc. Their end goal is indistinguishable from communism. It’s also treasonous.
They’re a FRINGE. They’re organized, and that organization has won support from many people, but they themselves are a fringe group. And associating what they say with the whole Democratic Party is Trumplican.
I think the difference is I take them seriously, they are a cancer growing in the country if we ignore it will be too late. Polling data on these things indicates way more than fringe. It has nothing to do with “Trumpism”
You can read a laundry list of what sober people have written, I would encourage you to do your own research. But one thing that's especially bad is the the NYC grocery store idea is crazy. It's a step toward government-controlled food distribution. If the city sells groceries 30% below market prices by subsidizing them with taxpayer money, private grocery stores (already operating on razor-thin margins) can't compete. That's essentially predatory pricing, except it's funded by taxpayers. The inevitable result is fewer private stores and more government control over the food supply. History suggests that's not a road worth going down. I can understand wanting to help the poor, the better answer if you had to do something is simply giving them cash or tax breaks and not mucking with free markets.
Did I misinterpret something? I didn't see where Adam said it was bad to pay for health and education.
Canada pays for both but it's no utopia. Both are faltering badly under the weight of a system that has not kept up to population growth. For health I would suspect that it also has to do with far more diagnostic tests and many new drugs that makes health care more expensive now. Which is probably why wiser countries use both publicly funded and private health care. We have a large aging population that is also placing new strains on the system. But that group of people won't last forever and the population is no longer growing so the problem of adequately funding health and education may resolve itself.
In light of the urgency of our health care, some provinces are looking at Sweden and other European countries who have a mix of publicly funded and private health care. Of course many people here are livid about this, thinking that Canada will turn into a complete user pay system. They are so taken with the dogma that it must all be free (which of course it isn't) that they cannot see how it's crippling us. We are so deeply taxed. They seem like children who just want to be taken care of by Daddy and are frightened to have their security messed with.
But it's not secure. That's the sadness of this. They see it's failing yet say 'but it's free and fair for all'. Who the hell cares if it's 'free' if you can't access it! A friend just went to Lithuania for a hip replacement and it was half the price it is in Canada at the few private clinics that are allowed. For everyone else that doesn't have an extra 23,000.00 to get it done in Lithuania they wait for years. That's not fair. That's years of pain and diminished quality of life for all the money they have paid into a system that is failing them. What we have is an IDEA of fair that doesn't match reality. But the dogma is glued in place and people are blind to anything that is outside of the dogma. These tend to be the same sort of folk who love big socialism and admire communism.
While the post is well written and interesting, I feel that it didn't cover the details of what made that experiment socialist. Many people confuse socialism, communism and capitalism and even conflate more complex ideologies that aren't even related to economy structure into it.
I truly believe the root of all evil at the moment is failing education - my kids who went to public schools didn't return with "communism brainwashing", but do understand the danger of monopolies, regulatory capture, and the imperfect-information systems in place that subvert free (labor) markets in many ways. Can they explain what is socialism? Definitely not...
This paragraph! "The hardest workers began to realize they were feeding, housing, and clothing neighbors who contributed much less while receiving the same rewards. Over time, those workers had less reason to continue putting in extra effort. The incentives that existed in a normal market system had been removed, and the results were predictable, and disastrous. Production declined, food became scarce, disagreements grew, and the community became increasingly divided over who was contributing what."
This is always true or never true - same rewards in terms of food rations? Same dollar amount? Same education? You could have free education and free healthcare while still having variable salaries - as European social countries do, for example…
The failed experiment of socialism in Western nations. Where has it succeed? Don't say Nordic countries those are capitalist with strong welfare state.
When I was a child, I visited a commune in Marin County where my father was living. The few children were left unsupervised, unfed, ignored by adults busy getting high. Two children drowned in a fetid swimming pool while the adults slept off their partying. The hippies complained when the health department came and fenced in the unmaintained pool.
Of course there are people trying to glorify the disaster by making a documentary about the wonderful commune. It’s amazing how people refuse to see what is in front of them.
Fascinating story. First time hearing it. Thank you for sharing.
One of the interesting 2nd order effects of the Biden open border policy is a lot of these asylum seekers were running from communism.
I wonder how successful this message will grow once it spreads beyond the “Marxist Masters Degree” archetype.
That's right. When the Berlin Wall fell, people didn’t run toward communism, they ran away from it. Millions wanted the freedoms and opportunities of the West. Yet too often, people focus on the theory of systems where everything sounds perfect on paper, rather than the real historical outcomes when those ideas were actually put into practice
Using a 200 year old utopian failure to discredit the idea of paying for health and education in a wealthy society is, to my mind, the very definition of evil intent.
I would suggest actually listening to some of the DSA members, in their own words. Also read the literature on their websites. It is far more radical than this: they want to de-fund police and abolish boarders, full state control over major corporations, replace the president & supreme court, abolish the senate, etc. Their end goal is indistinguishable from communism. It’s also treasonous.
They’re a FRINGE. They’re organized, and that organization has won support from many people, but they themselves are a fringe group. And associating what they say with the whole Democratic Party is Trumplican.
I think the difference is I take them seriously, they are a cancer growing in the country if we ignore it will be too late. Polling data on these things indicates way more than fringe. It has nothing to do with “Trumpism”
I asked about Mayor Mamdani. Tell me what he’s doing that is so bad. He’s the only DSA person in power right now.
You can read a laundry list of what sober people have written, I would encourage you to do your own research. But one thing that's especially bad is the the NYC grocery store idea is crazy. It's a step toward government-controlled food distribution. If the city sells groceries 30% below market prices by subsidizing them with taxpayer money, private grocery stores (already operating on razor-thin margins) can't compete. That's essentially predatory pricing, except it's funded by taxpayers. The inevitable result is fewer private stores and more government control over the food supply. History suggests that's not a road worth going down. I can understand wanting to help the poor, the better answer if you had to do something is simply giving them cash or tax breaks and not mucking with free markets.
Did I misinterpret something? I didn't see where Adam said it was bad to pay for health and education.
Canada pays for both but it's no utopia. Both are faltering badly under the weight of a system that has not kept up to population growth. For health I would suspect that it also has to do with far more diagnostic tests and many new drugs that makes health care more expensive now. Which is probably why wiser countries use both publicly funded and private health care. We have a large aging population that is also placing new strains on the system. But that group of people won't last forever and the population is no longer growing so the problem of adequately funding health and education may resolve itself.
In light of the urgency of our health care, some provinces are looking at Sweden and other European countries who have a mix of publicly funded and private health care. Of course many people here are livid about this, thinking that Canada will turn into a complete user pay system. They are so taken with the dogma that it must all be free (which of course it isn't) that they cannot see how it's crippling us. We are so deeply taxed. They seem like children who just want to be taken care of by Daddy and are frightened to have their security messed with.
But it's not secure. That's the sadness of this. They see it's failing yet say 'but it's free and fair for all'. Who the hell cares if it's 'free' if you can't access it! A friend just went to Lithuania for a hip replacement and it was half the price it is in Canada at the few private clinics that are allowed. For everyone else that doesn't have an extra 23,000.00 to get it done in Lithuania they wait for years. That's not fair. That's years of pain and diminished quality of life for all the money they have paid into a system that is failing them. What we have is an IDEA of fair that doesn't match reality. But the dogma is glued in place and people are blind to anything that is outside of the dogma. These tend to be the same sort of folk who love big socialism and admire communism.
While the post is well written and interesting, I feel that it didn't cover the details of what made that experiment socialist. Many people confuse socialism, communism and capitalism and even conflate more complex ideologies that aren't even related to economy structure into it.
I truly believe the root of all evil at the moment is failing education - my kids who went to public schools didn't return with "communism brainwashing", but do understand the danger of monopolies, regulatory capture, and the imperfect-information systems in place that subvert free (labor) markets in many ways. Can they explain what is socialism? Definitely not...
This paragraph! "The hardest workers began to realize they were feeding, housing, and clothing neighbors who contributed much less while receiving the same rewards. Over time, those workers had less reason to continue putting in extra effort. The incentives that existed in a normal market system had been removed, and the results were predictable, and disastrous. Production declined, food became scarce, disagreements grew, and the community became increasingly divided over who was contributing what."
This is always true or never true - same rewards in terms of food rations? Same dollar amount? Same education? You could have free education and free healthcare while still having variable salaries - as European social countries do, for example…
This is not what was happening
Socialism is evil and civilizationally suicidal, and we should stop pretending the same failed experiment will magically work this time.
Ok…. What experiment are you thinking about … ‘this time’. Please elaborate. Thanks.
The failed experiment of socialism in Western nations. Where has it succeed? Don't say Nordic countries those are capitalist with strong welfare state.