Could it be that the 62% of Americans under 30 looking favourably at "socialism" are thinking about countries like Sweden, the UK, Australia, and others in Europe rather than the 'catastrophic' states like the Soviet Union, Cuba and Venezuela? There is a middle ground, working quite well (nothing is ever going to be perfect) in many countries. They have capitalist markets, there is incentive to do well and make money, but a portion of taxes go towards a safety net for those in society that need it, healthcare, public services, the arts etc. Is that such a bad thing?
UK and EU are slowwlllly becoming more socialist than capitalist, so much government control and regulation (lots of it really suicidal). But yes can we please stress the part where we note that capitalism and free markets are what creates any wealth in the first place that might fund social programs. I fear we are not doing a great job of this.
Respectfully, it's very difficult to educate a generation of kids about the "global successes of capitalism" when the wealth gap is as extreme as it is in this country. You're never going to be able to convince people that are already working hard and can't get ahead that if they just work a little harder everything will pan out. I don't disagree with you that socialism isn't the answer but what we have is not a pure capitalist society. Crony capitalism at best. The fact of the matter is we've socialized the losses and privatize the Gains for the beneficiaries of this system so many times while those companies farm out the jobs that used to make it possible to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" that the under 35ish working class is disillusioned. What we're doing is unsustainable and if there are politicians telling them there's a way to survive without working their hands to the bone they're gonna vote for it. That's to say nothing of the non trivial % of gen z that doesn't want to work at all and will vote for it whether it's the best option or not
I understand - thus I mentioned we have to address the problems our politicians created. And we shouldn't be obnoxious to young people like the boomers have been with the various gaslighting commentary, they are partially to blame for why young people want socialism too if we're being honest.
You know what also really helps is having friends who escaped living under a socialist regime, these people make great educators. Even someone not doing as well as they'd like in America is so far better off than anyone under any socialist regime. We can fix our problems you'd never fix anything there without major, violent change. We don't have to do that.
Reading your comment I think we're enough on the same page honestly (that socialism is still a worse option for everyone).
I accidentally posted my response after the first sentence. No amount of history lessons or even first hand accounts from friends is going to make people forget the fact that the system being pitched to them is not working for them.
Yeah makes more sense now I edited to give a better response. Unlike the boomers I am not going to simply brush off what you say. It's valid, and we should work on fixing it. I can do another post on solutions for why young people shouldn't give up. Doomerism isn't good either
I don't disagree. I try to hire as many young people as I can and teach them a trade that they can make a living at. But let me give you an anecdotal example of what I'm talking about. I have a 25 year old kid that's been working for me for 6 years. Extremely gifted carpenter. Made $85k last year. Wife made probably $50k. No kids but want them. Can't buy a house in a neighborhood they'd want to raise a family in and the houses in the shit neighborhoods the mortgage would still be $2500 a month with a big down payment. Granted this is Austin and there are cheaper places to live but the wages are lower. And Austin by no means is the most expensive city in the country either. Now multiply that times millions of other kids his age in cities across the country. It's hard to spin that and not trying to isn't doomerism. It's reality. And as long as we keep widening the gap with this k shaped economy it's going to get worse. I have a feeling we're on the brink of another big print to bail out this private credit fiasco that's going to further devalue the currency and make it that much harder on them. It'll be worse w Gen a.
History shows us that this goes 1 of 2 ways. Either there's a reset that makes it easier for them to work hard and succeed or this ends with violence. As painful as the first might be for those of us that were born in an era that made it possible for us to accumulate wealth I still think the former is preferable.
I think we're in agreement but it's important to recognize the reality these kids are facing even when they are doing the right thing. 1/2 ton pickup trucks cost $70k. That's a years salary for most people. It's just not sustainable.
Could it be that the 62% of Americans under 30 looking favourably at "socialism" are thinking about countries like Sweden, the UK, Australia, and others in Europe rather than the 'catastrophic' states like the Soviet Union, Cuba and Venezuela? There is a middle ground, working quite well (nothing is ever going to be perfect) in many countries. They have capitalist markets, there is incentive to do well and make money, but a portion of taxes go towards a safety net for those in society that need it, healthcare, public services, the arts etc. Is that such a bad thing?
UK and EU are slowwlllly becoming more socialist than capitalist, so much government control and regulation (lots of it really suicidal). But yes can we please stress the part where we note that capitalism and free markets are what creates any wealth in the first place that might fund social programs. I fear we are not doing a great job of this.
People don't even get the fundamental principle of capitalism: That every economic transaction is a win-win that creates value for both parties.
Respectfully, it's very difficult to educate a generation of kids about the "global successes of capitalism" when the wealth gap is as extreme as it is in this country. You're never going to be able to convince people that are already working hard and can't get ahead that if they just work a little harder everything will pan out. I don't disagree with you that socialism isn't the answer but what we have is not a pure capitalist society. Crony capitalism at best. The fact of the matter is we've socialized the losses and privatize the Gains for the beneficiaries of this system so many times while those companies farm out the jobs that used to make it possible to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" that the under 35ish working class is disillusioned. What we're doing is unsustainable and if there are politicians telling them there's a way to survive without working their hands to the bone they're gonna vote for it. That's to say nothing of the non trivial % of gen z that doesn't want to work at all and will vote for it whether it's the best option or not
I understand - thus I mentioned we have to address the problems our politicians created. And we shouldn't be obnoxious to young people like the boomers have been with the various gaslighting commentary, they are partially to blame for why young people want socialism too if we're being honest.
You know what also really helps is having friends who escaped living under a socialist regime, these people make great educators. Even someone not doing as well as they'd like in America is so far better off than anyone under any socialist regime. We can fix our problems you'd never fix anything there without major, violent change. We don't have to do that.
Reading your comment I think we're enough on the same page honestly (that socialism is still a worse option for everyone).
I accidentally posted my response after the first sentence. No amount of history lessons or even first hand accounts from friends is going to make people forget the fact that the system being pitched to them is not working for them.
Yeah makes more sense now I edited to give a better response. Unlike the boomers I am not going to simply brush off what you say. It's valid, and we should work on fixing it. I can do another post on solutions for why young people shouldn't give up. Doomerism isn't good either
I don't disagree. I try to hire as many young people as I can and teach them a trade that they can make a living at. But let me give you an anecdotal example of what I'm talking about. I have a 25 year old kid that's been working for me for 6 years. Extremely gifted carpenter. Made $85k last year. Wife made probably $50k. No kids but want them. Can't buy a house in a neighborhood they'd want to raise a family in and the houses in the shit neighborhoods the mortgage would still be $2500 a month with a big down payment. Granted this is Austin and there are cheaper places to live but the wages are lower. And Austin by no means is the most expensive city in the country either. Now multiply that times millions of other kids his age in cities across the country. It's hard to spin that and not trying to isn't doomerism. It's reality. And as long as we keep widening the gap with this k shaped economy it's going to get worse. I have a feeling we're on the brink of another big print to bail out this private credit fiasco that's going to further devalue the currency and make it that much harder on them. It'll be worse w Gen a.
History shows us that this goes 1 of 2 ways. Either there's a reset that makes it easier for them to work hard and succeed or this ends with violence. As painful as the first might be for those of us that were born in an era that made it possible for us to accumulate wealth I still think the former is preferable.
I think we're in agreement but it's important to recognize the reality these kids are facing even when they are doing the right thing. 1/2 ton pickup trucks cost $70k. That's a years salary for most people. It's just not sustainable.